Elsa
Schieder (Youtube Screenshot)
I’m on an email list from Elsa Schieder relating to her
Counterjihad work with World Truth Summit. Too
often I lag a bit behind in reading her list emails. I recently read an update
from 11/3/17. It was so awesome in reasoning it needs to be posted even though
it’s a couple of weeks old.
Elsa is a kind of Center-Left gal in my humble opinion.
HOWEVER, her understanding of Islam is spot on!
JRH 11/14/17
********************
Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest
By Elsa Schieder
Sent Nov 3, 2017 at 11:02 AM
Via WorldTruthSummit.com
I'm writing to you because, yet once again, someone has said
something that makes no sense whatsoever - and has said it as if it were
self-evident. I've heard the same argument from many non-Islamics.
There's a movie with Jim Carrey, Dumb and Dumber. Well, this argument qualifies for an announcement:
There's a movie with Jim Carrey, Dumb and Dumber. Well, this argument qualifies for an announcement:
The argument: Islam must continue because there are so many
Islamics, over 1.6 billion. Different people say it differently, but the basic
argument is the same: The ideology of Islam is irrelevant. No matter how
bad or good it is, we must keep Islam around because of the numbers.
Does that make sense?
Let's imagine the year is 1945, the year of the end of World War II. The population of Germany is about 65 million. 7%, or approximately 4.5 million people, are card-carrying Nazis, and many more are Nazi-sympathizers. So the argument of those who hold that we must keep Islam because of the number of adherents, would be that Nazism must continue as there are so many Nazis.
It doesn't make sense to me. It sounds, in fact, immoral.
There are 2 possible responses.
Response one. Islam is a religion. Nazism is not.
My response: According to the core Islamic religious texts, Islam's goal is for the whole world to submit to Islam. And, according to the same Islamic religious texts, non-Islamics who are not Christian or Jewish are to be given only 2 choices: convert or be murdered. That applies to well over 1.6 billion people. I don't see that the people who refuse to convert would be any more or less dead if they are murdered by someone adhering to a religious or a political ideology.
In fact, many people have argued that Islam is primarily a political ideology. Bill Warner has checked: about 85% of Islam is political, not religious. However, this isn't my concern - I don't give any special status to a religious ideology. Plus, it's easy to prove that freedom of religion can never be top priority, or there are no human rights whatsoever:
http://elsasemporium.com/freedom-of-religion-and-priorities.html
What's the second argument? There were "only" about 4.5 million Nazis, and there are 1.6 billion Islamics. Numbers, these people might argue, only count when there are over one billion adherents.
I haven't heard anyone claim that only ideologies (religious and/or non-religious) with over one billion adherents need to be kept. But, if someone should come up with that argument, what's the logical reply?
The logical reply: Please back your claim. Why is it okay to be against an ideology with 4.5 million adherents, but not against one with 1.6 billion adherents?
In fact, the counter-argument is that an ideology with 1.6 billion adherents, if dangerous, needs to be countered far more than an ideology with "only" 4.5 million adherents.
By the way, note that the numbers argument has not been trotted out around slavery ("There were millions of people in favor of slavery, therefore they should have kept slavery"), nor around votes for women ("There were millions of people against votes for women, therefore women should not have been given the vote"), nor around gay rights ("There were millions of people against gay rights, therefore there should be no gay rights").
Does that make sense?
Let's imagine the year is 1945, the year of the end of World War II. The population of Germany is about 65 million. 7%, or approximately 4.5 million people, are card-carrying Nazis, and many more are Nazi-sympathizers. So the argument of those who hold that we must keep Islam because of the number of adherents, would be that Nazism must continue as there are so many Nazis.
It doesn't make sense to me. It sounds, in fact, immoral.
There are 2 possible responses.
Response one. Islam is a religion. Nazism is not.
My response: According to the core Islamic religious texts, Islam's goal is for the whole world to submit to Islam. And, according to the same Islamic religious texts, non-Islamics who are not Christian or Jewish are to be given only 2 choices: convert or be murdered. That applies to well over 1.6 billion people. I don't see that the people who refuse to convert would be any more or less dead if they are murdered by someone adhering to a religious or a political ideology.
In fact, many people have argued that Islam is primarily a political ideology. Bill Warner has checked: about 85% of Islam is political, not religious. However, this isn't my concern - I don't give any special status to a religious ideology. Plus, it's easy to prove that freedom of religion can never be top priority, or there are no human rights whatsoever:
http://elsasemporium.com/freedom-of-religion-and-priorities.html
What's the second argument? There were "only" about 4.5 million Nazis, and there are 1.6 billion Islamics. Numbers, these people might argue, only count when there are over one billion adherents.
I haven't heard anyone claim that only ideologies (religious and/or non-religious) with over one billion adherents need to be kept. But, if someone should come up with that argument, what's the logical reply?
The logical reply: Please back your claim. Why is it okay to be against an ideology with 4.5 million adherents, but not against one with 1.6 billion adherents?
In fact, the counter-argument is that an ideology with 1.6 billion adherents, if dangerous, needs to be countered far more than an ideology with "only" 4.5 million adherents.
By the way, note that the numbers argument has not been trotted out around slavery ("There were millions of people in favor of slavery, therefore they should have kept slavery"), nor around votes for women ("There were millions of people against votes for women, therefore women should not have been given the vote"), nor around gay rights ("There were millions of people against gay rights, therefore there should be no gay rights").
The only moral stance: numbers are irrelevant, in
terms of whether something should be kept or not. The Aztec religion featured
human sacrifice. It doesn't matter if many believed in it or only a few.
Why would anyone ever use an argument about Islam, while never even thinking of using it around slavery or gay rights? Because the numbers argument isn't "in the air" (via media, etc.) around slavery or gay rights.
The people who make the claim in regard to Islam, are clearly not thinking clearly - which is evident in so many areas of the West:
http://elsasemporium.com/brain-wreck.html
The logical argument is so elementary: what matters is the ideology, not how number of adherents. In fact, the more adherents, the more it matters to show any immorality, and to counter it.
A question: Who put the Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest idea into so many people?
Most important: How do we clear out the mental fog?
One option: send on this email as far as you can. You could also post to Facebook, Twitter, etc.:
http://elsasblog.com/171103-dumb-dumber-dumbest.html
(You can copy and paste the image, by the way.)
And now, all the best to all who care to THINK and dare to THINK - to use logic and come to logical conclusions.
Elsa
Why would anyone ever use an argument about Islam, while never even thinking of using it around slavery or gay rights? Because the numbers argument isn't "in the air" (via media, etc.) around slavery or gay rights.
The people who make the claim in regard to Islam, are clearly not thinking clearly - which is evident in so many areas of the West:
http://elsasemporium.com/brain-wreck.html
The logical argument is so elementary: what matters is the ideology, not how number of adherents. In fact, the more adherents, the more it matters to show any immorality, and to counter it.
A question: Who put the Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest idea into so many people?
Most important: How do we clear out the mental fog?
One option: send on this email as far as you can. You could also post to Facebook, Twitter, etc.:
http://elsasblog.com/171103-dumb-dumber-dumbest.html
(You can copy and paste the image, by the way.)
And now, all the best to all who care to THINK and dare to THINK - to use logic and come to logical conclusions.
Elsa
PS. By the way, I find it interesting that I haven't
heard this argument from Islamics, only from non-Islamics.
PPS. You may have noticed, if you go to the blog, that now, at the top, there's a DONATE button. It links to a page while explores why you might donate. Plus there's a 2-minute video:
http://elsasblog.com/please-donate.html
PPS. You may have noticed, if you go to the blog, that now, at the top, there's a DONATE button. It links to a page while explores why you might donate. Plus there's a 2-minute video:
http://elsasblog.com/please-donate.html
It felt good to do the page, which includes links to a lot
of the things I've done, and a few of the many fabulous comments I've received.
I'll put just one here:
Thank you.
Your mails are like vitamin.
Most stimulating.
Thank you.
Your mails are like vitamin.
Most stimulating.
It feels good to know my work is appreciated.
One of the many things I'm trying to figure out: Is there some way that this work I'm doing can become something that makes money? Will it be through donations? I see DONATE buttons on just about every pro-freedom blog. So for now, I'm trying that. I'm also considering a membership site: Better Strategies, Greater Flourishing.
PPPS. Recent blog posts:
What Are You DOING? Not: what should be done, what needs to be done (by other people)? But: what are you DOING?
Nitsana Darshan-Leitner - Bankrupting Terrorism. Over one BILLION dollars awarded.
Moderate Nazis vs Moderate Muslims. Was there such a thing as a moderate Nazi, a reader asked.
Stop the Show Trials. Stop of show trials of Western dissidents who won't be silent about Islam.
Martial Arts Tactics vs the PC and Islam. A top martial arts tactic: step aside, stick out your leg, watch your opponent fall flat.
Facts, vs Fact Claims, vs Conclusions. A common claim: You can get the facts to say anything. Is that true or false?
Freedom of Religion and PRIORITIES. If religious freedom is the top priority, then anything goes. No ethics!!
Fear is the Key. The West's suicidal course. Youtube, Facebook, Google - all accommodating to Islamic pressure. Fear and the West.
Stop the Child Abuse. No hitting - great. No ridiculing - great. But what about: NO THINKING and the teaching of lies.
Al Walaa wal Baraa - The End of Islam? Al Walaa wal Baraa: Islamic apartheid.
More ways to connect:
One of the many things I'm trying to figure out: Is there some way that this work I'm doing can become something that makes money? Will it be through donations? I see DONATE buttons on just about every pro-freedom blog. So for now, I'm trying that. I'm also considering a membership site: Better Strategies, Greater Flourishing.
PPPS. Recent blog posts:
What Are You DOING? Not: what should be done, what needs to be done (by other people)? But: what are you DOING?
Nitsana Darshan-Leitner - Bankrupting Terrorism. Over one BILLION dollars awarded.
Moderate Nazis vs Moderate Muslims. Was there such a thing as a moderate Nazi, a reader asked.
Stop the Show Trials. Stop of show trials of Western dissidents who won't be silent about Islam.
Martial Arts Tactics vs the PC and Islam. A top martial arts tactic: step aside, stick out your leg, watch your opponent fall flat.
Facts, vs Fact Claims, vs Conclusions. A common claim: You can get the facts to say anything. Is that true or false?
Freedom of Religion and PRIORITIES. If religious freedom is the top priority, then anything goes. No ethics!!
Fear is the Key. The West's suicidal course. Youtube, Facebook, Google - all accommodating to Islamic pressure. Fear and the West.
Stop the Child Abuse. No hitting - great. No ridiculing - great. But what about: NO THINKING and the teaching of lies.
Al Walaa wal Baraa - The End of Islam? Al Walaa wal Baraa: Islamic apartheid.
More ways to connect:
Facebook - WorldTruthSummit:
https://www.facebook.com/WTS [Link doesn’t work. This Facebook link works: https://www.facebook.com/WorldTruthSummit/]
https://twitter.com/Elsa_is_Elsa
@Elsa_is_Elsa
For lots more, come explore
http://elsasblog.com
and
http://ElsasEmporium.com
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