Ahmd Claims Bible is Error – I Declare Quran is Error
John R. Houk
© August 3, 2010
Ahmd and I have been exchanging private messages at my VOX site. Well really it began as an exchange of a post in which I am critical of Islam. For quite some time Ahmd has been proselytizing Islamic da’wa to me in efforts to convince of the goodness of Allah. Unfortunately (fortunately for me) for Ahmd I am a devoted Bible Believing Christian committed to the Good News of Redemption from Satan’s realm and being transferred to the Kingdom of God by the Redemptive Blood of Jesus Christ the Risen Savior and Son of God.
At this time I wish I would have kept the many private messages that Ahmd had sent me. He has actually been quite eloquent and patient in his da’wa attempts of persuasion utilizing all the Quranic suras that paint Mohammed and Allah in a favorable light evoking inner peace, the Oneness of Allah, the compassion and forgiveness of Allah and so forth. And Ahmd is correct. All of that such communication is in the Quran, Hadith and Sira of Islam. However, I have educated myself on all the ugly communications in the Quran, Hadith and Sira that are socio-political rules of action the Islamic community (Ummah) is demanded to observe. These ugly communications in most cases abrogates the so-called “Greater Jihad” described as the inner struggle to comply with the theo-sociological ethics of Allah to better oneself.
After a person is converted via peaceful da’wa to Islam then the indoctrination of the superiority of Islam begins. Once the bill of goods is sold on the “Greater Jihad” then the agenda to bring Islam to the world is inlaid as a stepping stone that has deceived the Muslim that the “Greater Jihad” is most important but that eventually the “Lesser Jihad” is ultimately essential to spread Islam along with the theo-political governance of the Ummah by brutal Shariah Law.
The “Lesser Jihad” is the justification for today’s Islamic terrorism to terrorize non-Muslims to submit to Allah or to punish Muslims considered heretics or apostates of Islam. It is the “Lesser Jihad” which the victims of Islamic Supremacism experience more often than the personal searching of the “Greater Jihad”.
I believe in my last private message response to Ahmd (I deleted it) I explained our back and forth about who is correct about Islam and Christianity is dependent on whose Holy Book is the truth. I told him I realized the Quran is the absolute word of Allah and ergo perfect to Muslims; however I considered the Quran a book of deception propagated by Satan’s darkness of deception rather than what Christians call God Almighty. I suggested that Allah was the evil Satan sent as an angel of light to deceive humanity to turn from The Way of God. I also suggested I realize that the Bible is thought to be a corrupted book that deceives Jews and Christians to the so-called truth of the Quran. I also indicated my faith that the Bible is the very Word of God and that any document that contradicts the Bible is a deceptive tool of an Anti-Christ Spirit. In this thought process I assert the Bible is the Word of God and that the Quran is the word of Satan.
This is the best of my recollection of the last private message I sent to Ahmd. The message was for me a hint to cease proselytizing toward me because I am a Christian and a believer that Jesus Christ is the Risen Savior in bodily form that is simultaneously of the nature of man and God being the son of Mary (hence Son of Man in Bible) and the Son of God (God Himself Incarnated as flesh-man yet without sin).
I have to admit I fell into an unchristian attitude of being snarky to Ahmd about Islam which was overtly insulting. Shame on me! The Word of God roughly says to honor all men especially fellow believers. Ahmd may not be a fellow believer however being disrespectful is outside the Law of Love in Christ Jesus the Son of God. Even in responding with the authorities that exist in order for Christians to live a peaceable life (The Christian Just War) as Believers pray for those in authority; we Christians are to pray for those who despitefully use us and persecute us. This is essentially of Islam toward Christians.
Consider this a set-up for the last private message sent to me which I follow with a response.
_____________________________
From Ahmd
Sent: Aug 1, 2010 10:52 AM
hi John
Very happy to dialogue with you
We have faith that Christ peace be upon him will return to Earth
All Muslims believe in this
It is also believed by Muslims that Jesus peace be upon him will return at the time of the Dajjal [Editor: “Dajjal” is Islamic for Satan] and he will be the one to eventually defeat him
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said: "I warn you against {antichrist} and every prophet warned his nation against him. But I am telling you something that no prophet has told his nation before me that he will be one eyed and Allah is not one eyed" {Sahih Bukhari
Bible Compared to Quran
Based on transcripts of various lectures given by Yusuf Estes & Dr. Gary Miller
Introduction by Yusuf Estes –
It should be stated at the outset of this work, which Muslims do not seek to put down or desecrate the Holy Bible. It is a matter critical matter of faith for Muslims to believe in the original revelations that came down to Moses, David, Solomon and Jesus, just as it is important for Muslims to believe in the revelation of the Quran that came to Muhammad, peace be upon him. The key word here however, is "original." As we all know the origin of the Bible is clouded with centuries of copying, translating and passing down information, now long lost with only copies of manuscripts remaining to remind us of what once was the Bible.
Additionally, it should be noted that Muslims do not seek to destroy the Christians or Jews belief in the Word of God, rather it is an obligation for Muslims to call to what is right and to halt that which is evil. Certainly, causing the "People of the Book" (as the Quran refers to Christians and Jews) to fall into disbelief and leave off any faith in God at all, is the very opposite of the direction Muslims should take in presenting any comparison between Islam and what has come down in the past from the Almighty God. We only seek to bring about more light to the people seeking guidance and pray for all of us to be successful with our Lord in this life and in the Next life and we ask His Guidance and Support in doing so, ameen.
THE BIBLE
[Yusuf Estes]
Old Testament
There exist today a number of different versions in the ancient Hebrew language of the Jewish Book called the Torah [Law] and this is usually referred to in Christianity as The Old Testament. Naturally, there have been many different translations to a great number of languages over the centuries and one could not expect them to be identical in text or meaning. What we have in English today still remains somewhat similar to large amounts of these older documents.
New Testament
There are also different versions of the Gospel or what is commonly called The New Testament in the Koine Greek language and Latin and these also have many translations to even other languages. Even amongst the English translations there are great differences. To mention two very clear differences for example; the Catholic Bible [c. 325 A.D] contains 73 books in total, while the Protestant Bible contains only 66 books, and although the newer (Protestant version) was taken from the Catholic Bible even then these books do not match completely with each other. There is no common denominator for any of the many different versions of the Bible.
Dead Sea Scrolls
There have been a number of scrolls and parchments found in places surrounding what we call the "Holy Land" over the centuries, not the least of which are those often referred to as the "Dead Sea Scrolls" or as they are known to the scholars "Wadi Qumran Scrolls." These were discovered in the last century around 1930 and have been proven to be very ancient and could well be older than any other extant manuscripts. Much of what has been translated from these scrolls is similar to some of the oldest manuscripts, but there are still very important differences worthy of note. We would like to recommend some important reading on this topic at the end of this paper.
THE QURAN
[Yusuf Estes]
Quran Means "Recitation"
The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writing about the Quran has been preserved in museums throughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also; the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).
Only One Version – Arabic
There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.
Memorized by Millions – Entirely
The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Recitation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?
Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized
All Muslims have memorized a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are leering the Quran in Arabic as a second language.
God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran
The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (i.e.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).
Quran Mentions Itself
The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).
Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly
The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic language: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existence, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.
Quran Challenges Readers
The Quran makes the clear challenge, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate its beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challenge for the unbelievers to consider; "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions." And yet, another challenge offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.
Scientific Miracles in Quran
The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).
[Watch videos of world's top scientists commenting on the "Miracle of Science in Quran"]
http://islamyesterday.com/videos/science/
http://web.archive.org/web/20070627031844/http:/islamyesterday.com/science/#science
- COMPARISON of BIBLE & QURAN-
[Dr. Gary Miller- with Commentary by Yusuf Estes]
Bible is Collection of Writings -
Quran is Recitation From God to Muhammad (p)
Whereas, The Bible is a collection of writings by many different authors, the Quran is a dictation (or recitation). The speaker in the Quran - in the first person - is God Almighty (Allah) talking directly to man. In the Bible you have many men writing about God and you have in some places the word of God speaking to men and still in other places you have some men simply writing about history or personal exchanges of information to one another (ex: Epistle of John 3). The Bible in the English King James Version consists of 66 small books. About 18 of them begin by saying: This is the revelation God gave to so and so… The rest make no claim as to their origin. You have for example the beginning of the book of Jonah which begins by saying: The word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Elmitaeh saying… quote and then it continues for two or three pages.
Compare this to the beginning of the Book of "Luke" begins by saying: “In as much as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, (2) Just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, (3) It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, (4) That you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.
We see the author of the Book of "Luke" saying essentially, "Many people have written about things, it seems fitting for me to do so too.” "Luke" says it seems to him that as long as others are taking in hand to write something about it, even though they were eye witnesses to the whole thing, he feels that even though he was not, he still has "perfect understanding of all things from the very first."
Therefore this is only a letter from one person to another, neither of whom knew Jesus, peace be upon him, nor were eyewitnesses to any of what had taken place. [Y. Estes]
If you compare that to one of the four accounts of the life of Jesus, Luke begins by saying: “many people have written about this man, it seems fitting for me to do so too”. That is all… no claim of saying “ these words were given to me by God here they are for you it is a revelation”, there is no mention of this.
"Bible" is NOT in the Bible
The Bible does not contain self-reference, that is, the word 'Bible' is not in the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible talk about itself. Some scriptures are sometimes pointed to in the Bible, say: Here where it talks about itself, but we have to look closely. 2nd Timothy 3:16 is the favourite which reads: “All scripture is inspired of God” and there are those who would say, here is where the Bible it talks about itself, it says it is inspired of God, all of it. But if you read the whole sentence, you read that this was a letter wrote by Paul to Timothy and the entire sentence says to Timothy: “Since you were a young man you have studied the holy scriptures, all scriptures inspired by God” and so on… When Timothy was a young man the New Testament did not exist, the only thing that stems he was talking about are scriptures – which are only a portion of the Bible - from before that time. It could not have meant the whole Bible.
Bible Curses Church Fathers Who REMOVED Book of Revelations
There is at the end of the Bible a verse which says:
Rev 22:18 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book (Revelations): if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book:
19. And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, god shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. [Y. Estes]
“Let anyone who takes away from this book or adds to this book be cursed”. This too is sometimes pointed to me saying: Here is where it sums itself as a whole. But look again and you will see that when it says: Let no one change this book, it is talking about that last book, #66 (or is it #73 in the Catholic Bible?), the Book of Revelation. It has too, because any reference will tell you that the Book of Revelation was written before certain other parts of the Bible were written. It happens today to be stacked at the end, but there are other parts that came after, so it cannot be referring to the entire book.
(Incidentally, according to different manuscripts much older than the King James Version, there are different words at the end of the Book of Revelation, so how would we resolve that matter? - Y.E.)
Note: The Book of Revelation was taken out of the Bible several times and then replaced and then taken out and replaced according to various Church Councils throughout Church history. Guess the Church Fathers didn't read the curse at the end of the book?
Whose Word Is It?
It is an extreme position held only by some Christian groups that the Bible – in its entirety - cover to cover is the revealed word of God in every word, but they do a clever thing when they mention this, or make this claim. They will say that the Bible in its entirety is the word of God; inerrant (no mistakes) in the original writings.
So if you go to the Bible and point out some mistakes that are in it you are going to be told: Those mistakes were not there in the original manuscript, they have crept in so that we see them there today.
They are going on problem in that position. There is a verse in the Bible Isaiah 40:8 which in fact is so well known that some Bibles printed it on the inside front cover as an introduction and it says : “ The grass weathers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever”. Here is a claim in the Bible that the word of God will stand forever, it will not be corrupted, it won't be lost. So if today you find a mistake in the Bible you have two choices. Either that promise was false that when God said my word won’t fade away, he was mistaken, or the portion which has the mistake in it was not a part of the word of God in the first place, because the promise was that it would be safeguarded, it would not be corrupted.
Are There Mistakes?
I have suggested many times that there are mistakes in the Bible and the accusation comes back very quickly: Show me one. Well there are hundreds. If you want to be specific I can mention few. You have for example at 2nd Samuel 10:18 a description of a war fought by David saying that he killed 7000 men and that he also killed 40000 men on horsebacks. In 1st Chronicles 19 it mentions the same episode saying that he killed 70000 men and the 40000 men were not on horsebacks, they were on foot. The point be what is the difference between the pedestrian and not is very fundamental.
How Did Judas Die?
Matthew 27:5 says that Judas Iscariot when he died he hung himself. Acts 1 says that, no he jumped off a cliff head first. If you study Logic very soon you will come in your course to what they call an “undecidable propositions” or “meaningless sentences” or statements that cannot be decided because there is no contextual false. One of the classic examples cited is something called the Effeminites paradox. This man was Cretan and he said “Cretans always lie”, now was that statement true or false? If he was a Cretan and he says that they always lie is he lying? If he is not lying then he is telling the truth then the Cretans don’t always lie! You see it cannot be true and it cannot be false, the statement turns back on itself. It is like saying “What I am telling you right now is a lie” would you believe that or not? You see the statement has no true content. It cannot be true and it cannot be false. If it is true it is always false. If it is false it is also true.
Well in the Bible at Titus 1:12 the writer is Paul and he is talking about the Cretans. He says that one of their own men – a prophet - said “Cretans always lie” and he says that what this man says is true. It is a small mistake, but the point is that it is a human mistake; you don’t find that if you carefully examine the true content of that statement. It cannot be a true statement.
Who is the Author?
Now I come back to the Quran, and as I mentioned the speaker in the Quran is - in the first person - is God. The book claims throughout that it is the word of God. It names itself 70 times as the Quran. It talks about its own contents. It has self-reference. The Quran states in the first Sura after Fatiha that “This is the book, there is no doubt in it, it is guidance for those who are conscious of God” and so on and so on… It begins that way and continues that way stressing that. And there is one very amazing statement in the Quran when you come to the fourth Sura 82nd Ayah which says to those who say Quran is something else than the word of God. It challenges them saying: “Have they not considered the Quran, if it came from someone other than God they will find in it many mistakes”. Some of you are students, would you dare to hand in a paper after you completed a research work or something at the bottom you put down there “You won’t find mistakes in this”. Would you dare to challenge your professor that way? Well the Quran does that. It is telling: If you really think you know where this came from then starts looking for mistakes because you won’t find any. Another interesting thing the Quran does is that it quotes all its critics. There has never - in hundreds of years - ever been some suggestion as to where that book came from but that the Quran does not already mention that objection and reply to it. Many times you will find the Ayah saying something like: Do they say such and such and so, say to them such and such and so. In every case there is a reply. More than that the Quran claims that the evidence of its origin is in itself, and that if you look at this book you will be convinced.
Difference of Authority
So the difference in Christianity and Islam comes down to a difference of authority and appeal to authority. The Christian wants to appeal to the Bible and the Muslim wants to appeal to the Quran. You cannot stop by saying: This is true because me book say it is, and somebody else would say something else is true because my book says differently, you cannot stop at that point, and the Quran does not. The Christians may point to some words that it is recorded Jesus said and say this proves my point. But the Muslim does not simply open his book and say: No, no the Quran says this; because the Quran does not simply deny something the Bible says and say something else instead. The Quran takes the form of a rebuttal, it is a guidance as the opening says (Huda lil mutakeen). So that for every suggestion that the Christian may say: My Bible say such and such, the Quran will not simply say: No that is not true, it will say: Do they say such and such then ask them such and such. You have for example the Ayah that compares Jesus and Adam. There are those who may say that Jesus must have been God (Son of God) because he had no father. He had a woman who was his mother, but there was no human father. It was God that gave him life, so he must have been God’s son. The Quran reminds the Christian in one short sentence to remember Adam - who was his father? - and in fact, who was his mother? He did not have a father either and in fact he did not have a mother, but what does that make him? So that the likeness of Adam is the likeness of Jesus, they were nothing and then they became something; that they worship God.
Quran Invites - Not Demands
So that the Quran does not demand belief - the Quran invites belief, and here is the fundamental difference. It is not simply delivered as: Here is what you are to believe, but throughout the Quran the statements are always: Have you O man thought of such and such, have you considered so and so. It is always an invitation for you to look at the evidence; now what do you believe?
Special Pleading of the Bible
The citation of the Bible very often takes the form of what is called in Argumentation: Special Pleading. Special Pleading is when implications are not consistent. When you take something and you say: Well that must mean this, but you don’t use the same argument to apply it to something else. To give an example, I have seen it in publications many times, stating that Jesus must have been God because he worked miracles. In other hand we know very well that there is no miracle ever worked by Jesus that is not also recorded in the Old Testament as worked by one of the prophets. You had amongst others, Elijah, who is reported to have cured the leper, raise the dead boy to life and to have multiplied bread for the people to eat - three of the most favourite miracles cited by Jesus. If the miracles worked by Jesus proved he was God, why don’t they prove Elijah was God? This is Special Pleading, if you see what I mean. The implications are not consistent. If this implies that then in that case it must also imply the same thing. We have those who would say Jesus was God because he was taken up in the heaven. But the Bible also says a certain Einah did not die he was taken up into the heaven by God. Whether it is true or not, who knows, but the point is if Jesus being taken up proves he is God, why does not it prove Einah was God? The same thing happened to him.
Clear Parts & Difficult Parts of Bible
I wrote to a man one time, who wrote a book about Christianity and I had some of the objections I mentioned to you now. And his reply to me was that I am making matters difficult to myself, that there are portions in the Bible that are crystal clear and that there are portions that are difficult, and that my problem was that I am looking at the difficult part instead of the clear parts. The problem is that this is an exercise in self deception - why are some parts clear and some parts difficult? It is because somebody decided what this clearly means; now that makes this very difficult. To give you an example, John Chapter 14 a certain man said to Jesus: Show us God, and Jesus said: If you have seen me you have seen God. Now without reading on the Christian will say: See Jesus claimed to be God, he said if you have seen me you have seen God. If that is crystal clear then you have a difficult portion when you go back just a few pages to Chapter 5 when another man came to Jesus and said show us God and he said you have never seen God you have never heard his voice. Now what did he mean there if on the other occasion he meant that he was God? Obviously you have made matters difficult by deciding what the first one meant. If you read on in Chapter 14 you will see what he went on to say. He was saying the closest you are going to seeing God are the works you see me doing.
Bible Does Not Claim Jesus Claimed to Be Son of God
It is a fact that the words “son of God” are not found on the lips of Jesus anywhere in the first three Gospel accounts, he was always calling himself the Son of Man. And it is a curious form of reasoning that I have seen so often that it is established from Bible that he claimed to be God because - look how the Jews reacted. They will say for example he said such and such and the Jews said he is blaspheming, he claimed to be God and they tried to stone him. So they argue that he must have been claiming to be God because look! - the Jews tried to kill him. They said that’s what he was claiming. But the interesting thing is that all the evidence is then built on the fact that a person is saying: I believed that Jesus was the son of God because the Jews who killed him said that’s what he used to say! His enemies used to say that, so he must have said it, this is what it amounts to. In other hand we have the words of Jesus saying he would keep the law, the law of Moses and we have the statement in the Bible, why did the Jews kill him? Because he broke the law of Moses. Obviously the Jews misunderstood him, if he promised he would keep the law, but they killed him because he broke the law, they must have misunderstood him, or lied about him.
Writers of Bible - Out of Context
When I talk about the Bible and quote various verses here and there I am often accused of putting things out of context, to say you have lifted something out of what it was talking about and given it a meaning. I don’t want to respond to the accusation as such, but it doesn’t seem to occur to many people that perhaps those who wrote portions of the Bible in the first place were guilty of the same thing. Maybe they – some of those writers - believed a certain thing and in order to prove it quoted from their scriptures – the Old Testament, the Hebrew writings - quoted out of context to prove their point. There are examples of that kind of thing. In Matthew 2 it said that a king wanted to kill the young child Jesus so he with his family went to Egypt, and they stayed there until that king died, and then they came back.
When the writer of Matthew, whoever he was, because the name Matthew won't be found in the book of Matthew; when he described this event saying that he came back out of Egypt, he said: “ This was to fulfill a prophecy which is written” and then he quotes Hosea Chapter 11 “Out of Egypt I called my Son”. So he said because Jesus went to Egypt and then came back out of Egypt and we have this passage in the Hebrew scriptures “out of Egypt I called my son” Jesus must have been the son of God. If you look and see what he was quoting, Hosea 11:1 he quotes the second half of a complete sentence, the complete sentence reads: “When Israel was young I loved him and out of Egypt I called my son”. Israel the nation was considered as the son of God. Moses was told to go to Pharaoh and say to him: If you touch that nation of people, you touch my son; warning him, warning Pharaoh: don’t touch that nation, calling the nation “the son of God”. So that this is the only thing talked about in Hosea 11:1. “Out of Egypt I called my son” can only refer to the nation of Israel. I mentioned this point some months ago here in another talk, to which a young lady with us objected that Israel is a symbolic name for Jesus. You will have a hard time finding that anywhere in the Bible because it isn’t there. You can take an index of the Bible and lookup the word “Israel” everywhere the word occurs and you will find nowhere in any place that you can connect the word Israel with Jesus. But never mind - suppose it is true, read on, the second verse says “and after that he kept on worshipping Bal”, because this is what the Israelites were guilty of, very often they kept falling back into Idol worshipping. So if that “Israel” really meant Jesus and it means that Jesus is the son of God that came out of Egypt they must also mean that Jesus from time to time used to bow down to that idol Bal. You have to be consistent, and follow through on what it says. So the point is whoever wrote Matthew and Chapter 2 was trying to prove a point by quoting something out of context, and he undid himself, because if you follow through on it, it cannot be so.
Quran Has Internal Evidences
Now I can come back to the claim the Quran makes that it has internal evidence of its origin. There are many many ways that you can look at this. As one example, if I single out somebody here and say: You know, I know your father - he is going to doubt that, he has never seen me with his father. He would say, how does he look like, is he tall short does he wear glasses? and so on, and if I give him the right answers pretty soon he will get convinced, “Oh yes, you did meet him”. If you apply the same kind of thinking when you look at the Quran, here is a book that says it came from the one who was there when the universe began. So you should be asking that one: So tell me something that proves it. Tell me something that shows me you must have been there when the universe was beginning. You will find in two different Ayahs the statement that all the creation began from a single point, and from this point it is expanding. In 1978 they gave the Noble prize to two people who proved that that’s the case. It is the big bang origin of the universe. It was determined by the large radio receivers that they have for the telephone companies which were sensitive enough to pick up the transmissions from satellites and it kept finding background noise that they could not account for. Until the only explanation came to be, it is the left over energy from that original explosion which fits in exactly as would be predicted by the mathematical calculation of what would be this thing if the universe began from a single point and exploded outwards. So they confirmed that, but in 1978. Centuries before that here is the Quran saying the heavens and the earth in the beginning they were one piece and split and says in another Ayah: “of the heavens we are expanding it”.
Quran Has Exact Accuracy
Let me tell you about a personal investigation, it occurred to me that there are a number of things you can find in the Quran that give evidence to its origin – internal evidence. If the Quran is dictated from a perfect individual; it originates with God, then there should not be any wasted space, it should be very meaningful. There should be nothing that we don’t need that you can cut off, and it should not be missing anything. And so that everything in there should really be there for a specific purpose. And I got to thinking about the Ayah which I mentioned before, it says, the likeness of Jesus is the likeness of Adam. It [is] an equation, it uses the Arabic word (mithel), it says Jesus, Adam, equal. You go to the index of the Quran, you look up the name ISA it is in the Quran 25 times, you look up the name Adam it is there 25 times. They are equal, through scattered references but 25 of each. Follow that through and you will find that in the Quran there are 8 places were an Ayah says something is like something else, using this (Mithel), you will find in every case and take both sides of it whatever that word is look it up in the index and it will be let’s say 110 times and lookup the other word and it will be said to be equal to the same 110. That is quite a project of co-ordination if you try to write a book that way yourself. So that everywhere you happened to mention that such and such is like such and such that then you check your index, filing system, or your IBM punch cards or whatever, to make sure that in this whole book you mentioned them both the same number of times. But that’s what you will find in the Quran.
Quran Provides Reason
What I am talking about is built on a thing that is called in Logic: Use and Mention of a Word. When you use a word, you are using its meaning. When you mention a word, you are talking about the symbol without the meaning. For example, if I say Toronto is a big city - I used the word Toronto as I meant this place Toronto is a big city. But if I say to you Toronto has 7 letters, I am not talking about this place Toronto; I am talking about this word - Toronto. So, the revelation is above reasoning, but it is not above reason. That is to say we are more apt not to find in the Quran something that is unreasonable, but we may find something that we would have never figured out for ourselves.
Unique Word Refers to Itself in Quran
The author of this sentence said if this book came from someone besides God then you will find in it many Ikhtalafan (inconsistencies). The word Ikhtilaf is found many times in the Quran. But the word Ikhtalafan is only found once in the Quran. So there are not many Ikhtilafan in the Quran, there is only one - where the sentence is mentioned. So you see how things are put together perfectly. It has been suggested to mankind: Find a mistake. Man could not get hold of a mistake, and he is very clever, because this sentence could also mean: Find many Iktilafan and so he quickly goes to the index to see if he can find many of them and there is only one... Sorry clever person.
[end of Dr. Gary Miller and Yusuf Estes]
Bible And Quran - Originally Both From Allah
Conclusion: Both the Bible and the Quran have come to us by way of Almighty God, then through His angel Gabriel and then to the prophets, peace be upon them. However, when the next step comes into play (that of the human beings faithfully transmitting it on to others and future generations) we find out that Allah has only preserved His Last and Final Revelation for all times. And He certainly did not need the humans to do that.
Respect For Holy Books
Muslims should respect the Bible because it does still contain some of the original teachings of Allah. But there is no need to go to Bible classes or purchase one to read to try to learn about what our purpose is here in this life. The Quran makes it clear that Allah has indeed, perfected our "way of life" for us and has conferred on us His favor and has chosen for us to submit to Him in Islam.
We would like to suggest to the non-Muslims to consider obtaining a Quran (order one free through our site if you like) and then investigate for themselves what the Quran is really all about and what it might mean to them in their lives.
[Free Quran available at: http://islamtomorrow.com/free]
Final comment from Yusuf Estes:
I would like to state that after years of studying the Bible and then learning the Arabic language to read the Quran as it was originally recited to Muhammad, peace be upon him, by the angel Gabriel, I have come to an amazing conclusion. It seems to me that the Bible and the Quran are most definitely from the exact same source and they complement each other very nicely. In fact, it appears that the Bible does not contradict the Quran, except in the very same places where the Bible contradicts itself.
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After perusing this last private message from Ahmd I’d say it is a pretty good guess that “Ahmd” is a pseudonym for Yusuf Estes.
Here is a quote about Yusuf Estes’ efforts as a Muslim apologist proclaiming the superiority of the Quran and the inferiority of the Bible:
Question:
I was reading the website of Yusuf Estes. A muslim apologist who used to be a Christian Minister. He claims that in his study of the Bible he saw the Bible is littered with contradictions, and that after reading the Koran he saw it had no errors and so could only be from God. How can I disprove something like that? And also he claims that the Koran is scientificly accurate, if it is not from God how can it be?
Answer:
The statements by Yusuf Estes are nothing new. This is pretty much the standard line of all Muslim apologists. Bear in mind that it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for Muslims to discredit the New Testament. Here is why. One of the very strongest tenets of Islam is that the prophet is never wrong. In fact, in Islam, the prophet is just barely short of perfect. They may sin, but they give very little room for sin in their lives. Muslims are very uncomfortable with the picture of Abraham, David and Moses presented in the Old Testament, as they present men who were very human and sinful. In any case, Jesus clearly claims to be God and to be the Son of God in the New Testament. He also claims that he would be killed and raised on the third day. All of this is in unmistakeable conflict with teachings in the Koran. For this reason, either the Koran is not the Word of God (an impossible conclusion for a Muslim) or the New Testament has been changed/corrupted. For this reason, the majority of Muslim apologists spend more time trying to disprove and undermine the New Testament than they do trying to prove that the Koran is inspired by God.
Let me talk about the supposed contradictions in the Bible. I have gone to a number of Islamic apologetic web sites. Without exception they make this claim, followed by listing supposed contradictions which are VERY easily explained by simply looking at the context or by trying to ask the simple question: how can these both be true. It is easy to make this claim, but it is harder to prove it. I cannot respond to the claim that the Bible is full of contradictions. This is too vague. I CAN respond to a list of supposed contradictions. In every case I have seen, these "contradictions" are not only not actual contradictions, they are in fact explained quite easily. Bottom line, this is a bogus claim. It does not hold up to scrutiny. Anyone who wants to can scan the Bible for supposed contradictions, but this is generally sloppy work.
I can certainly respond to the contention that the Koran has no errors. It has rather blatant historical errors and scientific errors. I list some of these in an article I wrote a couple of years ago. I am copying and pasting that article below [Editor: Go to this LINK and scroll to the end of this portion of the quote].
To me, the question of which is the word of God: The Bible or the Koran is best asked in the context in which apologists for both sides are able to respond to the claims of others. This is exactly what happened in a debate we sponsored last June in Chicago. This tribate was between Imam Shabir Ally, a world famous apologist for Islam, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, a world famous apologist for Judaism and Dr. Douglas Jacoby. I strongly suggest you get a copy of this debate and judge for yourself the quality of the arguments. Let me say that in this debate, the Islamic/Koranic position did not come off well, although Ally did a creditable job. In such a context, the bogus arguments used by many Islamic apologists do not work well. What Ally was left with did not play well in the light of clear argument and discussion. You can acquire a copy of the debate at www.ipibooks.com Also, you can find a detailed review of the debate at my web site. Do not be intimidated by such claims as that by Yusuf Estes.
John Oakes
Hence using Yusuf Estes (including other Islamic apologists) to disparage the Bible and elevate the Quran to the Divine revelation from a god who calls himself Allah is the twisting of logic. The reality if one compares that which secular Western scholars might label as contradictory is absolutely and extremely fewer than contradictions of the Quran. I encourage one to read John Oakes’ copy and paste article entitled, “The Qur'an: Inspiration or Human Creation?” that can be found at the end of that which I quoted. Oakes demonstrates the errors that Estes misleads his readers about the Quran.
There are a few items that I will take the time to address because it is such nonsense I am compelled to write about it.
Ahmd suggests one reason the Quran is better than the Bible is that the Quran is one book based on the memorized words of Mohammed’s companions written in one language of Arabic while the Bible is authored by many with many copied manuscripts that have been recorded by human hands and translated into different languages which might be egregiously translated.
Islam’s most reliable Hadith demonstrates there was disagreement between companions on what they heard while Mohammed was alive which carried on also shortly after Mohammed’s death. Did you know that the original Quran was compiled and put into writing two years after Mohammed’s death in 634 AD and became known as the Hafsah Codex (or perhaps Zaid Codex) named after one of the widows of Mohammed who kept it. The point is that the Muslim faithful and Islamic apologists tell the lie that the Quran is an untainted written text from the memories of various reciters of Mohammed’s words. When Abu Bakr agreed to compile a written record of the reciters of Mohammed many Qurans began to appear with different recitations. By the time of Islam’s third Caliph Uthman this became a threat to his theo-political rule because many Muslims of the conquering armies began to question which written recitations were the real words of Mohammed. Uthman’s solution was to create an official Quran and burn all the other recited variations of the Quran including the first Codex of Hafsah compiled in 634 AD which one would think would be the most accurate since the compilation was from the live reciters which had mostly died off by Uthman’s reign. (SA Islam Watch)
Then there is the issue of the Quran being perfect because it is written the original Arabic and all good Muslims learn to memorize the original the perfect Arabic of the perfect Quran. Hello! That Arabic is in the language of the day of Mohammed and the first following Caliphs. This is not the Arabic spoken in the 21st century. Also consider this most Muslims that exist do not speak even modern Arabic. The most populist Muslim nation is Indonesia likely followed by the various dialects of India of which the Western world splintered off what is known today as Pakistan and Bangladesh. Pakistan and Bangladesh indigenous language is not Arabic.
Then there is the issue that Muslims claim that the Bible nowhere records that Jesus is the Son of God or that Jesus calls Himself the Son of God. This is an absolute lie.
Jesus SAID personally:
66 As soon as it was day, the elders of the people, both chief priests and scribes, came together and led Him into their council, saying, 67 “If You are the Christ, tell us.”
But He said to them, “If I tell you, you will by no means believe. 68 And if I also ask you, you will by no means answer Me or let Me go.[j] 69 Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?”
So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”
71 And they said, “What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth.” (Luke 22: 66-70 NKJV)
Not only does Jesus concur that He is the Son of God the Jewish Pharisees go ballistic because Jesus agreed with their question.
Then there is the dialogue between Jesus and the Jewish Pharisees in which Jesus cryptically calls Himself the “I AM” in the Gospel of John Chapter 8. The Jews sought to murder Jesus by stoning him especially at the end of the dialogue when Jesus clarified His Sonship of God. Read the whole of Chapter 8 but let me quote Jesus in particular at the end of the dialogue that establishes Jesus is GOD:
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[a] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[b] going through the midst of them, and so passed by. (John 8: 48-59 NKJV)
Ahmd when Jesus said “… before Abraham was, I AM” He was declaring His Godhood to the Jews and they KNEW IT which was evidenced by their decision to stone Jesus the Son of God for His proclamation of Divinity. Yet Jesus who is the simultaneous nature of the Son of Man and Son of God supernaturally hid Himself and passed through the intended stoners unharmed.
Incidentally I have to relate to you Jesus’ reference to Himself as the “I AM” that drove the Jewish Pharisees nuts was not only that Father Abraham knew Jesus but that He was the same GOD Almighty that addressed Moses in the Burning Bush giving Moses the mission of delivering the Hebrews from being enslaved by the Egyptians and the Hebrews to the Land Promised to Abraham’s descendents via the Son of Promise Isaac (NOT Ishmael the son of the Egyptian slave of Hagar and Abraham).
10 Come now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt.”
11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?”
12 So He said, “I will certainly be with you. And this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain.”
13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’ 16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt; 17 and I have said I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, to a land flowing with milk and honey.”’ (Exodus 3: 10-17 NKJV)
Ex-Priest Yusuf Estes uses his knowledge of Christianity to twist The Way of Christ. Unfortunately for Estes there a couple of problems I have with his Islamic apologist dialogue in justifying Islam over Christianity.
Estes claims the Bible is full of contradictions and the Quran is not. The reality is most of those areas of the Bible that apologists like Estes utilize are claims filtered through Islam. In Christianity most of the claimed contradictions are easily explained with the whole view of the Bible in sight.
The Christian filtered view on the other hand of the Quran is loaded with contradictions and inaccuracies. Now I realize that Islamic dualism affords Islam the ability to line up two suras side by side that contradict each other yet be claimed to be in perfect harmony with each other. The Quran is not in chronological order but is printed from the smallest sura to the largest regardless of the chronological order
The reality is that Mohammed’s proselytizing in Mecca prior to getting the boot and fleeing to Medina resulted in few converts to Islam. These Quranic verses based at this time in Mecca are the most non-violent, peaceful, forgiving and pointing to inner peace with Allah. This is the da’wa that Yusuf Estes utilizes to mislead Christians to deny the Sonship of Jesus Christ and reduce Him to a mere man because of the nice Quranic words of Mohammed.
In Medina Mohammed used a combination of proselytizing and enticement of booty by caravan raiding. The more people attracted to the combination of Mohammed’s certain charisma and the promise of paradise for fighting for Allah and Islam converted robbing thugs to Islam. These thugs became devoted to Mohammed’s charisma and became an ever growing disciplined army. Eventually Mohammed used this army to confront the Jewish-Arabs that were standing in his way for political domination of Mecca. Also the booty-factor was involved of seeking Jewish wealth.
Mohammed’s encounter with Jews who refused to believe in his Prophethood obviously changed his spoken words about Jews (and eventually Christians) to error stricken but revered People of the Book to “kill them wherever you find them”. Undoubtedly the Jews and Christians rejected a peaceful submission to Mohammed because of his bait and switch of Biblical Scripture and proclaiming all the Patriarchs and Prophets were Muslims and that Mohammed exchanged Isaac’s (as the son of Promise) identity to Ishmael’s (the son of slave-servant of Sarah). The obvious duplicity and error in the Quran is explained by the Islamic theology of Abrogation. Abrogation is means that chronologically the last spoken suras of the Quran outweigh the earlier suras of the Quran. This turns out to be a kind of a Mecca (peace) vs. Medina (violence) Quran with the later Medina suras carrying more weight; ergo dualistic abrogation enables the Muslim mind to claim absolute harmony. That does not match up with Western logical thinking.
JRH 8/3/10
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Note I have used spell check on Ahmd's private message. Some of the English was misspelled. If I have inadvertantly changed a meaning of a sentence forgive me Ahmd.
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