John R. Houk
© May 5, 2010
Below is a comment left at my Vox blog which is also posted at my flagship blog’s companion site SlantRight 2.0, entitled, “Homosexual War on Christianity Marches On”.
As of the time of this response there were 21 comments at the Vox location. Most of those comments are between me, Emmi and John r. As is typical of homosexual apologists John r. chooses the indirect path of insulting my intelligence and setting me on a lengthy course of data to back my contentions and beliefs. Honestly I don’t have enough time to tackle the enormous data but I fell for it. Realizing I could not effectively run a commentary of specifics of every word in Romans chapter one, I thought I would tackle at least the sex sins spoken of in Romans chapter one. After two verses I found even this task daunting in time. I expecting John r to ridicule me for my lack of time so I think I will throw the challenge back in his court and request him to run his homosexual apologetics on the verses he believes do not actually say homosexuality is a sin and refute my contention that homosexuality is not natural according to the Word of God.
My response turned into such a long answer I thought I might as well post it as a blog entry.
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john r wrote:
4 days ago (5/1/10)
i didnt know you were a believer. then for sure you can explain how homosexuality comes against the 2nd commandment(love your neighbor..................) the 2nd commandment being a summation of ALL new covenant law. therefore for something to be a sin under the new covenant, it must also come against the 2nd commmandment.
"that which is not against us, is for us"
or could you explain how the words of romans 1 say that homosexuality is a sin.... for example, explain phrase by phrase what those verses mean and so on and so on.
we will see how much you uphold the inerrancy of scripture by whether you attempt to assign meaning to certain verses in spite of their words, or add your own stroke for the sake of your theology, in other words how you uphold christ's words about the importance of each stroke.
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John r I apologize for not getting to the comment for a few days.
Hmm... 2nd Commandment:
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. - Ex 20:4-6 NKJV
Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law (which includes the 10 Commandments). The purpose for the Law is to convict of sin. The purpose of Grace through Christ is deliverance from sin. That which convicts of sin is washed clean by the Blood of Jesus in Redemption. The penalty of sin eventually arrives at the sting of death. This death is not physical death. Rather it is the Second Death described in Revelation. The Second Death is eternal separation from the Presence of God which is why Grace gives the opportunity of repentance and turning to God through faith in Christ which provides the free gift of Grace which delivers from the existence of sin's slavery and from the Second Death. Hence a believer in Christ will follow the 10 commandments because they are a redeemed new person in Christ Jesus. The old man is passed away and behold all things have become new. Mortality has been replaced with immortality. The fullness of immortality arrives with the Second Coming of Jesus when full Redemption includes the physical and soulish (mental) to join the spirit restoration to newness of Life.
Matt. 5:17-19
John 3:1-21
1 John 1:5-10
2 Cor. 5:14-21
Hebrews chapt. 10
Eph. 1:3-14
Eph 3:19-31
Matt: 22: 37-40
Rev. 21:1-8
As to Romans 1, for the sake of time let us examine the words that relate to sex sins that separate humanity from God.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. -Rom. 1:26-27 NKJV
Vile: Dishonor: Dishonor comes the negative form of honor denoting ignominy and disgrace.
Passions: (A-1) primarily denotes whatever one suffers or experiences in any way; hence, "an affection of the mind, a passionate desire." Used by the Greeks of either good or bad desires, it is always used in the NT of the latter, Rom. 1:26
Exchanged: (B-2) "to change one thing for another, or into another," Rom. 1:25, 26, is translated "exchange" in ver. 25
Natural: (A-1) originally signifying "produced by nature, inborn," from phusis, "nature"
Nature: (1,,5449 c) "the regular law or order of nature," Rom. 1:26
Burned: (A-3, Verb) lit., "to burn out," in the Passive Voice, "to be kindled, burn up," is used of the lustful passions of men, Rom. 1:27.
Lust: (A-2, Noun) lit., "a reaching" or "stretching after" (akin to oregomai, "to stretch oneself out, reach after"), a general term for every kind of desire, is used in Rom. 1:27, "lust."
Committing (working in KJV): (Strong's) 1) to perform, accomplish, achieve . 2) to work out i.e. to do that from which something results [a) of things: bring about, result in]. 3) to fashion i.e. render one fit for a thing.
Shameful (unseemly in KJV): "unseemly," is rendered "unseemliness," in Rom. 1:27, RV: See Shame 4: denotes (a) "unseemliness," Rom. 1:27, RV (AV, "that which is unseemly"
Receiving: (A-4, Verb) signifies "to receive from another," (a) to "receive" as one's due (for Luke 18:30, see No. 1); Luke 23:41; Rom. 1:27
Penalty (Recompence in KJV): (A-3, Noun) "a reward, requital" (anti, "in return," misthos, "wages, hire"), is used (a) in a good sense, 2 Cor. 6:13; (b) in a bad sense, Rom. 1:27
Error: (1,,4106 plane) "a wandering, a forsaking of the right path, see Jas. 5:20, whether in doctrine, 2 Pet. 3:17; 1 John 4:6, or in morals, Rom. 1:27
Due (meet in KJV): (B-1, Verb) an impersonal verb, "it is necessary, one must," is translated "it was meet," in Luke 15:32; in Rom. 1:27, AV, "was meet" (RV, "was due"). See DUE, B, No. 2: an impersonal verb signifying "it is necessary," is translated "was due" in Rom. 1:27.
Wow John r! The justification of just two verses is vast. For time’s sake I will stop here; nonetheless Romans 1: 26-27 more than prove that homosexuality is ungodly and perverted and unnatural.
JRH 5/5/10
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