The Facts Staring a Muslim Apologist in the Face

John R. Houk
© September 10, 2010

This is an exchange concerning my comment in which I will summarize by saying that Mohammedanism/Islam is a demonized religion. A gentleman at the social blog community of Multiply who goes by the blog entitled - Roberts Rants, Ravs, Observations, and other silly ideas that kept me out of good schools – took umbrage of my description of Islam. According to the link associated with that Multiply profile title the person’s name is Robert Paul Locke which may or may not be his actual name. Many bloggers use a pseudonym for purposes of anonymity. My wife wishes I would use a pseudonym because of my outspoken thoughts concerning Islam. She fears retribution from the religion of peace. Below is the first response by Robert.

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http://robertpaullocke.multiply.com/ September 8, 2010 6:09 PM

For those who believe that Islam is a Devil Inspired religion. I got news for you. You got your information wrong. How Do I know you got your information wrong. (sic) While you guys sit here and bash and believe anything you read on the Net. I did the intelectual (sic) thing, and bought a copy of the Koran, and I am reading it. And I don't see anything about Islam being all Evil and Dangerous. How sad I feel for you. You live in what is referred to by many as the greatest country in the world. We have access to thousands and millons (sic) of publications that promote tolrance (sic) and understanding, but you much rather Hate something you don't trully (sic) understand. If you are getting sources from Just Right wings groups your (sic) not going to get the whole picture. Why won't you people open your minds and open your hearts? Heres (sic) something to ponder while you waste another day bashing and yelling. "Those Who are with out (sic) sin may first cast the first sone (sic)."
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My Rebuttal to Robert:

Robert while you read your Quran you should know something about it. NUMBER 1 is the Quran is not written in chronological order rather it is written from longest surah to shortest surah. Even though the suras are organized in this fashion the suras written later than the earlier suras carry more weight. The Quran is not written chronologically yet the chronology is highly important to a Muslim theologian. Because of the Muslim doctrine of dualism combined with the weightier later suras, a Muslim does not consider there to be any discrepancies. Thus when the earlier suras say to honor the people of the book (i.e. Christians and Jews), a Muslim will not blink an eye when that person comes to Kill them wherever you find them. Then as you read the Quran keep in mind that the Hadith though not considered perfect in Islam is still highly revered as authoritative depending on who wrote (or recorded) a Hadith. It is in the Hadith that most of the vileness of Islam is located. The Hadith are the explanations of Mohammed's Quranic suras. So Robert make sure you read the Quran with an Islamic understanding of Islamic theology before you shout from the rough tops about how peaceful and beautiful that book is. (I ran a spell check on my original comment.)
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Robert’s Response:

robertpaullocke wrote September 8, 2010 at 7:09 PM

You guys are not going to convience (sic) that the religion of Islam is all that Evil. Especially, when christains (sic) have done more harm in the name of God than Any one. Have you forgotten Slavery, done in the name of God, Killing off the native Americans in the name of God. (sic - should be a question mark) The crusades. (sic – should be a question mark) Even some how (sic) I don't know how, but People convinced prototesant (sic) churches to join up with the Klan. And they still to this day believe that the white race is Gods (sic) only race., (sic) We have done more destruction in the name Of Jesus than any thing. And yet I bet if some how Jesus came down from Earth and said you were wrong. you'd syone (sic) him any way because he isn't white. Oh in speaking of the victims of 9/11. Did you know that besides the terrorist. (sic) There were innocent musliums (sic) who parished (sic) in the 9/11 attacks. (sic – should be a question mark) I bet if you looked up a few names you'd see it there. So why aren't you honoring them as well? Not just white people died in the towers. I'm tired of you Right Wingers always looking for Evil every where (sic). You started off with the commies after world war two, (sic) and now its (sic) all Musliums (sic) are Evil. They are out to get our White Women. Just like the Niggers and wet backs are.
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My Rebuttal (not posted as a response at Mele’s Constitutional Governance post):

Robert says Christianity is the most evil of religions. Robert justifies this bald-faced lie by equating slavery was done in the name of the Christian God, the killing of Native Americans was perpetrated in the name of the Christian God and the atrocities committed by Crusaders was executed in the name of the Christian God.

This is a common accusation utilized by anti-Christian Leftists and Muslim apologists. Were these acts of violence and murder really done at the behest of the Christian God or were the acts executed by humans justifying atrocities by wrongly claiming they were following the will of God? I am telling all who are reading this that blatant acts of senseless violence and murder done in the name of the Christian God was and is done by the human will for either materialist-political reasons or warped interpretations of Scripture using a call to arms or someone following the direction of God (Old Testament) and not lining up the Old with Jesus being the fulfillment of the Law thus fulfilling the punishment directed by the Law against sin. Jesus is all about delivering humankind from the evil instruments of Satan’s dark lordship established by Adam’s disobedience to God Almighty the Creator of all that exists.

There is no dualism in Christianity in which senseless violence and mercy are both truth as it is in Islam. Here are some examples of dualistic truth in Islam:

Quran Sura Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2: 256 (in three English translations):

YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

PICKTHAL: There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

SHAKIR: There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

The "no compulsion in religion" sura is abrogated by Quranic At Tawba Sura 5: 33-34:

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YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

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YUSUFALI: Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

SHAKIR: Except those who repent before you have them in your power; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

A significant amount of Sura 5 to this point is on dietary laws and claiming that Jews and Christians (aka People of the Book) have forgotten the original word of Allah that has been around for time immoral thus Jews and Christians are not to be believed in any assertions that are contrary to the Quran. This is the case even though Mohammed lived over six hundred years after Christ and thousands of years after Judaism and the written Quran occurred after Mohammed’s death from the memory of Mohammed’s companions charged with memorizing Mohammed’s words. Since Mo received a revelation from an angelic entity attributed to Gabriel and directly from Allah then of course (tongue in cheek) the Biblical Scriptures are a lie if they disagree with the dysfunctional memorized words of Mohammed. And since those People of the Book are such liars if they press or defend themselves against Mohammed’s Allah they must be killed. That is of course with imminent death being near they say, “HEY, that Allah dude is of a truth God and Mohammed is his last prophetic authority.” Then and only then is the will of the all forgiving Allah’s mercy to prevent the murder of a Jew or Christian who converts to Islam. SO MUCH FOR THE EXISTENCE OF NO COMPULSION OF RELIGION in Islam.

In the Quran both are true: kill the non-Muslims that talk against Islam AND there is no compulsion in religion. The duality makes both true yet in the situation that advances Islam compulsion or death is true because those words were spoken later than the “no compulsion” words.

Here is a larger list of Quranic Suras in which the earlier is abrogated by the later: Abrogated Suras.

Is slavery instituted in Christianity?

NO! New Testament Scriptures on slavery are about how a Christian should act if he or she is a slave. You will find not find a Scripture in the New Testament in which Christians are directed to propagate the faith by war and dehumanize the conquered and enslave the vanquished or make women objects of sex-servants. When Christianity became institutionalized as the State religion by the Roman Empire after Emperor Constantine acts of rape and violence undoubtedly happened by Roman armies that fought under a Christian Cross. Were these atrocities part of Christian Scripture? Again NO!

Is slavery, dehumanization of spared non-Muslims and sex slavery a part of the Quran or found in the revered writings of the Hadith and Sira? YES!

Slavery

“Like numerous passages in the Hebrew bible and the New Testament, the Qur’an assumes the permissibility of owning slaves, which was an established practice before its revelation. The Qur’an does not explicitly condemn slavery or attempt to abolish it.” (Islam and Slavery: The Quran)

I’ll have to give that to Robert about Islam theologically. Think about this though: Long after slavery became past thought on the European Continent, slavery has been practiced in Islamic dominated areas. The various locations in which purist Islam is practiced slavery is still pervasive in its existence. The examples are Sudan and Saudi Arabia.

Still there are the more erudite than I who have performed an exegesis of slavery and the Quran and have come up with salient points that place the Quran in a poor light other than what Islamic apologists would have non-Muslims (kafir) believe. A capital offense even today in Muslim dominated lands and an excuse for terrorism or just plain murder in Western lands.

Sex Slavery (Emphasis mine):

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YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

SHAKIR: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Quran 4: 24

And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

The poor souls who chose to be resolute to their faith when their lands were conquered by blood thirty Muslim conquerors became dehumanized as a dhimmi that was expected to submit to most humiliating of treatment particularly in paying a tax Mafioso like for protection. A protection extended ONLY by accepting humiliation. Any effort to demand self-respect by a dhimmi was a death sentence for insulting Islam, Mohammed and Allah. The souls devastated in India made the suffering of the conquered People of the Book look like a picnic. And make no mistake: the conquest of primarily Christian populations in the Middle East, North Africa and Europe suffered so horribly that centuries of Islamic humiliation had made those conquered areas like 90% Islamic (Okay so it is a subjective guess, but I’m willing to bet it is a logical guess). Indians suffered mass deaths and tortures until some Muslim elite discovered there was more profit in exploiting the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh and Jain Indians than obeying the words of the Prophet to destroy all polytheist pagans.

Catholic Christianization of Latin America mirrored the Muslim brutality of Christians and Jews of the Middle East, North Africa and Europe. The majority of North and South America became a Spanish culture by virtue of conquest and the huge nation of Brazil is the remnant of Portuguese conquest which enforced it’s version of the Catholic Church on Native Americans (at least of urban areas). Eventually interbreeding with Hispanic colonialists made a unique Catholic-Latin American culture that has obvious influences among the poor of their Native American heritage.

The conquests of the North American Native Americans took a less brutal yet still a horrendous path. The earliest interaction between the English and French started out on a foot of building alliances favorable to colonialists. Native Americans viewed these initial alliances as built on honor while the colonialists viewed alliances as a political time to achieve a peaceful life apart from persecution of the Christian faith that may deviate from the Established Church of England or of Continental European immigrants. Ultimately economics and property won over the colonialists more than religion and that is when true expansionism began that usurped more and more Native American land. There was little of the intermarriage between Protestant Christians and Native Americans; thus Native Americans faced tribal extinction of forced migration West until the West ran out of space. Christianization of Native North Americans proceeded mostly as they accepted American Colonialism and later American Culture into their midst in the East and on forced Reservations in the West. If Native Americans were the victims of Islamic conquest their culture would be a mere footnote in history for their polytheistic and/or animistic religious practices would have placed them in the same class as the Hindus of the Indian subcontinent. Which would have meant total eradication of Native Americans not just forced evangelism of Protestants and Catholics.

One of the most ludicrous of blame games is to bring up the atrocities of the Crusades as an equal comparison of Islamic Conquest. The simplistic reason for the initiation of the Crusades is because a Muslim Turkish leader became a good pious Muslim and felt insulted that Christian kafir came on pilgrimages to the Holy Land. The vaunted Islamic toleration of Christianity claimed by Muslim apologists took a back seat as the Christian pilgrims became the victims of marauding Muslim thugs harassing, robbing and/or killing Christians as they journeyed to the land where Jesus walked before the Resurrection. In essence the Muslim marauders were being good Muslims by standing up for the Quranic edicts of refusing the insult of another religion other than Islam from flourishing in Islamic conquered lands.

The complicated and real reason for the Crusades to the Holy Land is much deeper than the excuse used to act against marauding Muslims. Recall that Islam had conquered the Middle East and North Africa and parts of Iberia (Spain and Portugal) prior to the Crusades that began in 1095. By the 700’s AD the brutal Islamic conquests had reached present day France. The Islamic conquest of Europe stalled at the Battle of Tours (or Poitiers) when Charles Martel (The Hammer) went medieval on the invading Muslim Amir Abd ar-Rahman in 732. Charles Martel effectively pushed the brutal Muslim out of France back to Iberia. The last Muslim stronghold of Iberia was finally ejected in 1492 when joint Monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella completed the Reconquista forming present day Spain. The Muslim toehold in Iberia is a good example of what Europe faced in preventing Islam to ravage it in the same way Middle Eastern and North African Christians experienced. From North Africa Muslims executed raids that resulted in destruction, booty and slaves. This is a better explanation for the occurrence of the Crusades. It was a rare occasion the Monarchs and Nobles of Europe banded together to give Muslims a bit of their own medicine. The unfortunate happenstance of the Crusades is the mirrored atrocities of Muslims. After hundreds of years of Muslim brutality the First Crusade unleashed an onslaught on the Muslims that would have made Mohammed proud if the Crusaders were Muslim rather than Christian. Using Muslim apologist thinking in reverse, the Crusader reconquest of the Holy Land was way less brutal in terms of time than the Muslim conquests of the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe.

Robert let’s end this rebuttal with your last words so typical of a Muslim apologist:

You started off with the commies after world war two, (sic) and now its (sic) all Musliums (sic) are Evil. They are out to get our White Women. Just like the Niggers and wet backs are.

When all else fails label a Conservative a Right Wing racist. I don’t think a rebuttal is necessary for this line of thought that is typically used when faced with the facts about the real Islam.

JRH 9/10/10